Sunday, November 6, 2011
On Romans 10:1-4
Paul Answers the questions in chapters 9[-11]: why there are some Jews who are perishing because of faithlessness? Is God faithful and trustworthy as Paul says in chapter 8? Paul ultimately answers by saying that God is still faithful and trustworthy even though there are some who disbelieve in God's righteousness and the reason why some Jews are perishing is so to fulfill God's purpose of Election in calling both Jews and Gentiles.
What do Christians fundamentally believe?
The fundamental christian belief is that there is a God who is good and just and that he impartially judges not according to appearances but according to the heart.
Are there any supralapsarians out there?
A response from a dear friend of mine has said: "I'm neither. Both traditional answers seem to be inadequate. God isn't temporal therefore there isn't a question of predestination 'before' or 'after' the fall, since we were chosen before time, before the foundation of the world."
However when we speak of God decree we often times speak of the decree in plurality sense decrees. So although there are ultimately just one decree and that is the decree to glorify Himself in the election and reprobation of some people. The question of supralapsarianism or infralapsarianism is not a question of order of the decrees for both are in sinc with one another. But the differentiation has to do with whether the objects of God's election and reprobation were to be created and fallen or were already created and fallen.
(I will continue to think and reflect more on this objection)
However when we speak of God decree we often times speak of the decree in plurality sense decrees. So although there are ultimately just one decree and that is the decree to glorify Himself in the election and reprobation of some people. The question of supralapsarianism or infralapsarianism is not a question of order of the decrees for both are in sinc with one another. But the differentiation has to do with whether the objects of God's election and reprobation were to be created and fallen or were already created and fallen.
(I will continue to think and reflect more on this objection)
The implications of Supralapsarianism
I would not call it a hyper-calvinist view. Hyper calvinism is that which says there is no need to evangelize, no need to intereact for God has done all that is necessary for salvation in the eternal past. I would say however, the scripture is presents this view to us.
Of course any of our beliefs that we hold to must be in check. We should not allow what we believe be the basis for our interpretation of Scripture. But I am learning what it means to allow scripture to be the basis for my beliefs not the other way around. So I should say if Scripture teaches this doctrine, how then does it consist with other points of doctrine that it teaches us? Like for instance What does this mean about God's purpose of Salvation? What is the intended means of God to save sinners.
Point number 1, which says that God elected some men to salvation and reprobated others to condemnation is not the same as point number 3 which says that God then decreed to permit the fall.
The first point simply says that the objects of choices were unfallen which brings upon itself an implication when the fall occurs. Paul says in Romans 9:21, that they (the reprobate and the elect) were the same lump of clay unfallen when God made his decisions. So this brings implication to the third point that God decreed the fall. This shows the reason for the elect to find salvation in Christ alone. For God must deal with the fallen race accordingly, but He works in the elect so that they will believe in Christ, whereas the reprobate will not repent and believe. God is not keeping the reprobate from believing in Christ, but He is leaving them in their sins.
Then the fourth point answers the problem, how will God save the elect? whereas the third point answers the problem how will God condemn the reprobate? The answer from the third point is that All men sinned and fall short of the glory of God. The fourth point says because all men sinned and fall short of thte glory of God in Adam and by their own sins even the elect, God needs to provide salvation for the elect. Considering that God is madly in love with His nature and attributes, He does things accordingly. So God is Triune God (Father, Son, and Spirit). Notice that all three person of the Trinity are at work in salvation, all are one in intent to glorify God in History. So the Father elects, creates, and decrees the fall, the Son is sent to save the elect, and then the Spirit goes out and brings the elect unto salvation.
So as to your point that this discourages men and women from witnessing and doing evangelism. I would say this does not. Of course one may take any doctrine like Grace and say because I am saved by grace therefore I do not need to do anything to glorify God. Obviously you will say that is false and give your reply for why it is so.
Another thing is that this really does as you were saying does encourage people to do evangelism. For one it does for it is the Holy Spirit who works in one to will and act accordingly to God's good pleasure and purpose. Two, it is in accord to the nature of God and His will and being. and Three it is consistant with the means for salvation. By Grace, through faith, in Christ alone, revealed in the Scriptures alone, for the glory of God alone.
Of course any of our beliefs that we hold to must be in check. We should not allow what we believe be the basis for our interpretation of Scripture. But I am learning what it means to allow scripture to be the basis for my beliefs not the other way around. So I should say if Scripture teaches this doctrine, how then does it consist with other points of doctrine that it teaches us? Like for instance What does this mean about God's purpose of Salvation? What is the intended means of God to save sinners.
Point number 1, which says that God elected some men to salvation and reprobated others to condemnation is not the same as point number 3 which says that God then decreed to permit the fall.
The first point simply says that the objects of choices were unfallen which brings upon itself an implication when the fall occurs. Paul says in Romans 9:21, that they (the reprobate and the elect) were the same lump of clay unfallen when God made his decisions. So this brings implication to the third point that God decreed the fall. This shows the reason for the elect to find salvation in Christ alone. For God must deal with the fallen race accordingly, but He works in the elect so that they will believe in Christ, whereas the reprobate will not repent and believe. God is not keeping the reprobate from believing in Christ, but He is leaving them in their sins.
Then the fourth point answers the problem, how will God save the elect? whereas the third point answers the problem how will God condemn the reprobate? The answer from the third point is that All men sinned and fall short of the glory of God. The fourth point says because all men sinned and fall short of thte glory of God in Adam and by their own sins even the elect, God needs to provide salvation for the elect. Considering that God is madly in love with His nature and attributes, He does things accordingly. So God is Triune God (Father, Son, and Spirit). Notice that all three person of the Trinity are at work in salvation, all are one in intent to glorify God in History. So the Father elects, creates, and decrees the fall, the Son is sent to save the elect, and then the Spirit goes out and brings the elect unto salvation.
So as to your point that this discourages men and women from witnessing and doing evangelism. I would say this does not. Of course one may take any doctrine like Grace and say because I am saved by grace therefore I do not need to do anything to glorify God. Obviously you will say that is false and give your reply for why it is so.
Another thing is that this really does as you were saying does encourage people to do evangelism. For one it does for it is the Holy Spirit who works in one to will and act accordingly to God's good pleasure and purpose. Two, it is in accord to the nature of God and His will and being. and Three it is consistant with the means for salvation. By Grace, through faith, in Christ alone, revealed in the Scriptures alone, for the glory of God alone.
Saturday, November 5, 2011
On Double Predestination
I read a website saying that Double Predestination means that God is working just as much in the hearts of the Reprobate to prevent them from being saved as in the Elect to save them. This is wrong. Double Predestination means that God reprobates one vessel of people for dishonorable use and elects another vessel of people for honorable use. Then in a truly Supralapsarianist understanding God decreed to allow the fall to occur. The cause of the rejection is not Man's sin, but the cause of the condemnation is sin. So Bob is rejected as an heir of Grace, but when Bob falls into sin he does so willfully and he is also condemned. It is a false assertion to say God works into the heart sin. For God does not have to work in the heart of the reprobate what is already there from the fall. But, God works in the hearts of the elect so that they will believe. It is not a question of whether or not they will, they WILL by God's choice.
Subscribe to:
Posts (Atom)